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Post by andrew on Apr 30, 2008 14:20:25 GMT 8
with regards to timothy's question, please go to Discussions about the faith & Real Life issues at the main page. find the topic, Talk with God.
timmy, i've shared some stuff there.
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Post by Timothy on May 1, 2008 14:07:52 GMT 8
haha alright read it alrdy. thanks.
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Post by t1000 on May 2, 2008 21:23:00 GMT 8
wherelse, all your scientic facts and all were proven but someone else, so ultimately you cant get a full picture of what the scientist wanna say thus you might actually misinterpret the stuff they say. Actually i developed half of those theories so i perfectly know what i was talking about.
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Post by t1000 on May 2, 2008 21:25:07 GMT 8
Hey guys, We all know God is real. but i feel it is difficult to use the 'universe' as ammunition when talking to non-believers. the point on evolution itself suggests it doesn't matter how far away or close to the sun you have to be to survive. evolution is the many levels of development, in a manner of speaking. can one then say a person who has made many mistakes has 'evolved' to not make the same mistakes and 'better learn to survive'. evolution is adapting to the surrounding, over time, right? just cause there are no humans on Mercury doesn't mean there are no living things. but then again, no proof no talk eh? the next question is then how do you prove that God is real? Testimonies, witnessing and living like Jesus everyday are good examples. people will see God through you and short of parting the pacific ocean, i think that's the easiest way of showing proof that God lives. True but the only problem is nothing, not even microscopic bacteria ever developed on mercury due to the intensifying heat and because of the heat and lack of water evolution never occured, the same goes for the other planets.
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Post by andrew on May 2, 2008 23:49:34 GMT 8
? True but the only problem is nothing, not even microscopic bacteria ever developed on mercury due to the intensifying heat and because of the heat and lack of water evolution never occured, the same goes for the other planets. can't really say there is no life (or there is) cause no one's been to other planets. (no one that's been reported) but there is a possibility. God created the universe, didn't He not? just because we cannot see doesn't mean things ain't there. what i'm saying is, on a factual arguement with non-believers, how will you show God is real... by your actions or by debating over aliens from other planets... i agree that the likelihood of live anywhere else than on earth is slim or not possible at all. but hey, since when do we believe in the impossible?
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Post by eddinelious on May 3, 2008 2:44:48 GMT 8
yeah. i guess andrew brought up a really good point there. but then again, actions can matter these much, whereas such truths about God can also matter as much. I am on a fence about this one. Both are standing up for what you believe. Debates and actions. Same difference. That's why, some of us preach some of us serve in ministries.
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Post by t1000 on May 3, 2008 19:33:50 GMT 8
can't really say there is no life (or there is) cause no one's been to other planets. (no one that's been reported) but there is a possibility. God created the universe, didn't He not? just because we cannot see doesn't mean things ain't there. Life and intelligent life are two different things from a certain point of view which. What i was implying earlier was the lack of resources which prevents intelligent life arising from planets known to earth. But of course i don't deny the possibilities of intelligent life elsewhere in this endless universe but i was implying it in the context of human life. The thing is with non believers, it is extremely difficult to convince them either way via debating or our actions or what we have experienced, the only(there may be others) true way into letting them believe is that they themselves have to experience some form of the supernatural and some form of god.
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Post by Mandy Grace Leo on May 3, 2008 19:44:31 GMT 8
well it really depends on the type of person you talk to, really. some are open debators, willing to have a good debate with you but some just can't accept certain things and the debate turns arguemntish. I think in the end, the way you share your fatih with non-believers, whether its through a debate or testimony, it all depends on the person you're talking to, and thats where discernment will come in..
but yeah. theories are good, but personally, at the end of they day, for me, i feel that i connect most with sharing my personl experience because no one can tell me that my experience was wrong of right.
actually, i've found a very powerful answer to people's claim that God doesn't exist. He has to because I've experience him! How can someone that I've befriended not exist? So, likewise, no one can tell me my experience didn't exist.
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Post by Timothy on May 4, 2008 16:20:01 GMT 8
well it also depends on wad the person is like.
if he is those kind of like hey show me tons of proof than i'll believe u. than u can use marcus way of preaching and all.
but yeah, the best and most effective way is to let the person experience God in his own way and let it work from there. if u go to a non-believer and tell him bout science and all this and that he'll get bored and not be interested.
again my point of view.
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Post by Ben on May 4, 2008 16:31:56 GMT 8
anyways, yeah all this dint happen by chance? there is a God!! yes i do believe in that? but hey dun always use science to prove things? there might be a backslide to it? when there is science there is always another 'but'. well i think there's no problem using science to prove that God exists. because modern science is pointing to evidence that a Designer created the universe, and that's exactly what i read in the book 'Case for a creator'. modern secular physicists and scientists all believe that there has to be someone who created the universe because everything is too intelligently wired for it to be created by chance. as for evolution, i just don't believe the part of humans evolving from monkeys, and how people say we came form them because aof the similarity of certain features and chimps sharing about 90% of our genes. and normally when you pray youjust know that you're listening to him. at least that's for me. some of you may have get a different response. and if i'm asking for directions from God on how to do certain things, ideas just pop into my head and it answers my questions. and when you're connected to God and in touch with him frequently you would begin to think and act alike with God so ultimately you would have that stronger discernment spirit in you.
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Post by t1000 on May 4, 2008 18:36:36 GMT 8
actually, i've found a very powerful answer to people's claim that God doesn't exist. He has to because I've experience him! How can someone that I've befriended not exist? So, likewise, no one can tell me my experience didn't exist. Even still some people will remain skeptical and they will still claim the burden of proof falls on you, if you had experience it and they have not, what exactly makes you think they would believe you when they have yet to see any shred of evidence? They can simply imply that your making something up or come up with an endless list of excuses and rebuttals which will make the debate endless which is why i specifically stated earlier that the only way(perhaps) for them to truly believe is they themselves experience god or at least the will to seek god. Believe me, i have came across these kind of people before. if u go to a non-believer and tell him bout science and all this and that he'll get bored and not be interested. Your wrong actually, many non believers would rather look at science to convince them that god is real, the very fact that something was behind the creation of the universe and how it was set in motion is very interesting_for both believers and non believers) and brings up an extremely big mystery for non believers which leads them to believing that a supernatural being of a higher level is out there. They get bored when you try to preach them via religious means which is why many of us(including me) get extremely bored during mass. but hey dun always use science to prove things^ WHAT on earth do you mean "don't always use science to prove things"? If so, how are we going to prove that their are other galaxies? How are we going to prove that animal so and so falls under which category?(mammals, fish , reptiles)
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Post by andrew on May 5, 2008 0:43:37 GMT 8
can't really say there is no life (or there is) cause no one's been to other planets. (no one that's been reported) but there is a possibility. God created the universe, didn't He not? just because we cannot see doesn't mean things ain't there. Life and intelligent life are two different things from a certain point of view which. What i was implying earlier was the lack of resources which prevents intelligent life arising from planets known to earth. But of course i don't deny the possibilities of intelligent life elsewhere in this endless universe but i was implying it in the context of human life. The thing is with non believers, it is extremely difficult to convince them either way via debating or our actions or what we have experienced, the only(there may be others) true way into letting them believe is that they themselves have to experience some form of the supernatural and some form of god. i agree with the statement in bold. God will choose them before they can understand what God's love is. how He does it is another thing... could be through our actions or shining light from heaven.
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Post by Timothy on May 5, 2008 13:58:53 GMT 8
i meant that u cant always use science to prove things. u cant always rely on scientific discoveries to back u up.
well yeah, science proves TONS of things but there are still yet some things tat science cant discover. some scientists even come up with their own conclusions. lets say they like yeah there is a designer that created everything. do u tink they actually did do research till the very end? no i dun tink so, i guess things might have gotten too complicated and they were like yeah the designer must be a genius.
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Post by eddinelious on May 5, 2008 16:24:46 GMT 8
timmy i think u are going nowhere...he wasnt using science to prove any science thangs...he was using science to prove scientists wrong.which in my perspective is really sweet, using their poison to hurt them.
i just guess in days like these where science plays such a big part...using science to back u up...is also an advantage something to really put into ur utility belt.
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Post by t1000 on May 5, 2008 20:05:39 GMT 8
i meant that u cant always use science to prove things. u cant always rely on scientific discoveries to back u up. What the fu*k are you talking about? Why are you getting so stubborn? So your saying i CAN'T use scientific discoveries to back up my point that there are OTHER planets in this galaxy alone? Who says i can't rely on scientific discoveries? Hell scientists whom are non religious already are in belief of a supernatural being whom was responsible for the course of the universe. well yeah, science proves TONS of things but there are still yet some things tat science cant discover. some scientists even come up with their own conclusions. lets say they like yeah there is a designer that created everything. do u tink they actually did do research till the very end? no i dun tink so, i guess things might have gotten too complicated and they were like yeah the designer must be a genius. Ask yourself before making such an unsupported assumption : is there ANYTHING for scientists to study on about the "designer"? I think its pretty obvious science made it clear that there was a single moment of creation in the universe, one whom originated from a super being.
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